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Share your Post-HVCC Experiences

Appraisers called the real estate/lending collapse years before it happened, based on what they were seeing- liars loans, inflated values, excessive pressure, an over reliance and misuse of AMVs, but no one was listening. It’s our belief that those “in the trenches” know better than any expert about the health of the profession and, post HVCC, the ability of appraisers to fulfill their role in the lending process. For this reason, and at this critical time, WRE and OREP have established an HVCC Appraiser Talkback Blog and survey to give the profession a voice. Now you can share your first-hand experiences about life after HVCC with fellow appraisers, regulators and lawmakers here.

 

There are a lot of “expert” opinions circulating about the possible effects of the HVCC but you are the only ones who will know the net effect on the profession and on your practice. Our hope is that an exchange of first-hand experiences and lessons learned will have a positive effect on the profession and your business. Many regulators, lenders/AMCs and lawmakers also read Working RE, and their thoughts and perspectives are welcome too.

Share your experiences now.

 

84 Responses to Share your Post-HVCC Experiences

  1. This is a 25 year appraiser responding to the California Appraiser Whom I will have to insult as a fool. Here is my short response to you. Your blog states everyone is a dishonest fool in the appraisal business making the numbers for the brokers. See many other blogs in here tell you that they are honest and deserve their fair pay. You are willing to take a pay cut so someone else get benifet off of your hard work. Here is how weak you are. You must not be able to handle a business and deal with clients if you believe working for someone is better. Maybe for someone like you that cannot run a successful business and needs TO BE LEAD LIKE A SHEEP DOES THIS SOUND FAMILIAR TO YOU. YOU NEED TO WORK FOR SOMEONE WHO TELLS YOU WHAT TO DO BECAUSE YOU CANNOT DO AN HONEST JOB OR RUN A BUSINESS. GO TO THE HERD WITH THE REST OF THE AMERICANS THAT BELIEVE EVERYTHING THE BANKS AND GOVERNMENT DO IS FOR YOUR BEST INTEREST. THEY ARE MAKING BILLIONS OFF US AND JUST WANT MORE. ASK A JUDGE OR POLITICIAN TO GIVE YOU HALF THEIR PAY AND SEE WHAT THEY TELL YOU. JUST TELL THEM YOU WANT TO REGULATE THEM THAT IS ALL IT IS. WAKE UP IF YOU CANNOT BE AN HONEST APPRAISER LIKE THE MAJORITY OF THEM GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS. CALIFORNIA APPRAISER YOU CAN HAVE ALL THE WORK THERE IS BECAUSE AFTER ALL EXPENSES AND PAYOUTS YOU WILL ASK YOURSELF WHY DO I HAVE NO MONEY LEFT. I’LL TELL YOU WE ARE IN BUSINESS FOR OURSELVES AND LIKE EVERY BUSINESS IN AMERICA THERE ARE EXPENSES. HOW DO YOU SIT BACK AND SAY YOU CAN TAKE HALF MY FEE WITH NO RESPONSIBILITY OR RISK AND NO EXPENSES. YOU JUST DON’T GET IT IT’S NOT WORKING FOR AM AMC. ITS THE INCOME AND PRESSURE AND DEBT IN TOTAL. FINALLY IF AN AMC PAYS ME $350 PER APPRAISAL AND I GET PAID EVERY WEEK FOR THE COMPLETED WORK. I AGREE WITH YOU I’LL WORK FOR AN AMC BECAUSE I CAN PAY MY BILLS AND MAKE A LIVING AND GET PAID TIMELY. IT’S BASIC BUSINESS 101. YOU DON’T SEE ANYONE IN THIS COUNTRY SAYING SURE GIVE ME A PAY CUT AND LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU HAVE WORK FOR ME AND IF I GET IN TROUBLE WILL YOU BE THERE FOR ME OR JUST HIRE THE NEXT APPRAISER. YOU SEE I AM ALWAYS LOST WHY PEOPLE CAN’T SEE STRAIGHT ON. NOONE GIVES THEIR PAY TO SOMEONE ELSE BUT YOU DO IT LIKE YOU MAKE A MILLION A YEAR AND ONLY LOST 50 DOLLARS. WAKE UP GET INTO FAST FOOD WHERE YOU NEED A SUPERVISOR TO TELL YOU WHAT TO DO. HERES A BUSINESS STATEMENT A RICH MAN ONCE TOLD ME. IF YOU GIVE YOUR SERVICE AWAY FOR FREE THEN THATS WHAT IT IS WORTH. I ONLY PISSED BECAUSE ABOUT 90 PERCENT OF APPRAISERS I HAVE HEARD FROM ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE THE LESS FESS AND CRAP CAUSING THE AMC TO GO DOWN JUST LIKE THE CREDIT CARD COMPANIES SHOULD THEY HAVE ALL BEEN RAPING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE FOR YEARS NOW THAT PEOPLE ARE FINALLY SAYING NO THEY ARE ALL HURTING A THEY DON’T LIKE TO NOT HAVE THEIR MONEY. SO DON’T WORRY WHEN THE REST OF US SAVE THIS BUSINESS YOU CAN REAP THE REWARD OF GETTING PAID.

  2. Miles E. says:

    Greetings folks,

    I would just like to through my 2 cents in to sweeten the pot. I am a independent residential appraiser who has just recently been certified. It has taken me 5 years of my life to get this certification & a number of hoops to jump through. The Idea that some middleman is going to be stepping on my toes makes me furious.. I produce a quality report no matter what the fee & the turn around time but I can tell you that I’m pissed when I’m getting paid half of what my work is worth. I can also say that the way these AMC’s treat appraisers is a shame & disgrace. The way they email all the appraisers available at once to let them know there is a property to be appraised and the one who is quick enough to reply back & except the lowest fee gets it. like a dried up bone to a pack of hungry dogs. The appraisers need to refuse this work for such low fee’s. If everyone did it then they would have to increase. Name one other profession that would allow this type of non-sense to go on. None… I don’t know about the rest of you but I worked extremely hard to get this certification and I will not be bullied in to lesser life style by some jackass managment companies.

    I guess what I’m trying to say here is “don’t mess with our fee’s” If you, as a managment company, need to get paid for your services then you need speak with the entitiy that you are providing managment for. Not us the appraisers.. So, as we like to say in my part of town “step off”

  3. Tim says:

    Michael,

    Read Craig Butterfields post. Lenders, combined with a particular title company, has spawned the 5 Big AMC’s. The HVCC is a control mechanism over the apraisal industry and an out right gutting of the mortgage brokerage business. The HVCC came about from the WAMU and EAppraise-It (now RELS) relationship that resulted in revealing of mass fraud. FNMA/FHLMC settled with the AG of New York who filed suit against them for inclusion in this little scam. However, the New York AG appears to be complicit in the implementation of the HVCC as he has some percieved conflict of interest. The result; the regulators are all in huff and in a podium pounding, suspender snapping tizzy over “mortgage fraud”. Of course, their perception is that the fraud HAD to have occured between mortgage brokers and appraisers having “direct contact”. At least that was the opinion they were told to use when they cashed their campaign contribution checks from all the big banking lobbies. Banks want TOTAL control of the mortgage and VALUATION industry. Of course, there is another matter of the side benefit of having all that data to repackage and sell. Think this new MCS form has anything to do “market value”, NO. Case-Shiller, FHFA, NAR or any of the big indexes are “historical” and when they are released its 90 days down the line. Collecting MCS data will bring numbers current so they can more easily identify the trend line. The appraisal profession is now made up of; State Certified Statistical Data Collectors. The compensation structure from the AMC’s sort of underlines that fact.

    Again ….A part of this blog forum to post experiences with specific AMC’s by name would go a long way in helping us all understand. As an industry we may not be able to go on a Nationwide “strike” however, we can boycott the worst of these AMC’s and then try and negotiate with the ones that are left, for better or worse.

    Sorry to stray Michael…the shot answer is your former Bank client saw a way to make some extra dough and took it. Besides it really hasn’t cost them anything……………yet.

  4. Where are the professional appraisal departments of banks with whom we had a professional appraisal relationship? Our opinions were valued. Now the market has collapsed. I wonder why…AMC’s?

    Anyone one else see some appraisers using unlicensed individual do all the work in places far removed from their office? So much for competency and honesty.

    Seems like a number of AMC’s are indepentently owned by major finance companies who also own the appraisal software companies… hmmm!

    In my opinion the AMC’s diminish the appraisal profession. Try explaining an appraisal problem to a telephone clerk living in another state.

    Can not afford to live on AMC fees AND deliver a professional report. So much for “INDEPENDENT” fee appraiser. Maybe I’ll go back to the commercial side of appraising. Or are they next?. Time to explore another profession as others have indicated they’ll be doing.

  5. Tim says:

    “Feedback on AMC’s”…….a seperate area dedicated to posting about specific AMC’s BY their NAME. If we have to pick some of these folks to work with it would be nice to know a little something about them. With over 250 AMC’s out there right now appraisers need the “data” on them. Expected fee split, turn time, reporting requirements, ease of use, and I suggest even give them a star rating. Most of the nonsense appraisers are faced with in working with these groups are the competition between THEM. It has nothing to do with appraisers trying to compete with appraisers, by now we are all up to speed on exhaustive reporting, ASAP turn times (even when it is unecessary), stupid conditions, and a whole host of technology and education investments above and beyond continuing Ed. Lets see what AMC’s have to OFFER US ? Out em’, put their business in the street. Let everyone know individual experiences so that others don’t have to waste their time and money.

    How about it WorkingRE ? A wealth of information for all appraisers to access before making a decision.

  6. Daniel J. Bizzoco says:

    I was on my train commuting home and my temperature was 98 degress, but after reading two articles in the Winter 2009 issue, my temperature was at a boiling point by the time I reached my station. What the heck is going on around here?

    I have been in the appraisal industry for 30 years with residential experience having been several decades ago….so I know the residential industry has changed dramatically since I was performing single-family appraisals. But when I start reading that AMCs, servicing agents and alilke, are altering appraisals….it blows me away. No one has the right to alter an appraisal, except the appraiser! Also, since when has (and I quote)…”Inspection photographs and data on sales are more critical to the lender in many cases than the appraisal conclusion.” (as cited by Paul Chandler) I always thought the analysis and appraisal conclusion WERE the most important aspects of an any appraisal! (am I missing something?)

    In the age of technology and improved transparency, you would think that the appraisal process have become better. But then again, cost and timing have become the most critical aspects of an appraisal. Over the years, many layers have been added to the appraisal process with people/companies who have no idea what goes into an appraisal, or what it all means. There is no question in my mind that quality has become secondary. Now that the markets have gone south, everyone is pointing fingers at the appraiser…AGAIN. Please, stop it! What happened to all the deals that were done with 95% or higher financing, or better yet…no income verification loans…who thought of that?

    By way, there are unscrupulous people found in all-walks of life and in every industry, and the appraisal industry is not immune. I know that everyone is not to blame and I am not here to criticize everyone, but in this case, it appears that with more people involved in a process, the more things have gone wrong versus getting it right. At this point, some one should start handing out the bleach tables….TO WAKE UP….before its too late and another round of rules and regulations are enforced. But it’s probably too late for that…considering where we were and where we currently are.

  7. Tracy says:

    Can anyone tell me why the appraiser has to pay for the AMC. Why not establish thier own fee to add to closing costs. This has stopped the lender pressure on us but now we have AMC’s cutting us off if we dont except thier low fees. We are required to become more educated and give more detail to our reports for a lower fee and then in our spare time we can address the ridiculous list of second guessing from the review AMCer on the other side of the country?!?!

  8. Tim says:

    Get Em’ Craig…..

    I’m convinced the turn times are all due to the competition between AMC’s. Really ….can a seller be ready close and move their stuff in 10 days ? Is a buyer ready to give 10 day notice and move their stuff ? Its all a bunch of crap. Craig is on the money with his info folks and it doesn’t take a lot of digging to confirm it. However, before you go to your individual state boards be sure you know who is on them. The Florida Board just filled a vacant seat with a BOA Staff appraiser, another seat member is a conusltant for JP Morgan. I guess as soon as another seat opens up we can give that to soemone from Wells Fargo. The AI has had influence over the Florida Board for years. If you look at the discipline reporting going back to state certification the % (or lack thereof) is amazing. Forget about Mel Martinez though Craig, and most of our other “representatives”, from the Fl AG all the way down the money has been spread pretty well and for a pretty long time. The HVCC is just a giant business grab and monopoly move. I am starting to wonder if this whole financial crisis may have somehow been planned (?)

    Check out; “The Best Way to Rob a Bank is To Own One” on you-tube.

  9. Date: Friday, April 03, 2009 05:17 pm
    Subject: Last Chance to STOP the HVCC

    Hello Appraisers,

    The HVCC takes effect (May 1st 2009). It is our last chance to be heard. It is also time to make our march to Capitol Hill to get Congress’ listening ear, and demand a Congressional investigation into the HVCC and put a STOP to it. For those appraisers who understand that the HVCC will permanently damage our profession, then we must meet in DC at least 10 days prior to HVCC D-Day 05/01/09. I will compile a list of responsive appraisers who are prepared to make this trip.

    I have brought the very last paragraph from the below dissertation; and placed it HERE for emphasis:
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    Fannie/Freddie/Ginnie Execs; Citicorp, Bear Stearns, Shearson Lehman Execs, and even former Air Force Generals, and a veritable who’s who in America sit on the boards of AMC’s: FARES/FIDELITY,FI-SERVE,Velocity and AMCO.

    There may be 5 million or more home loans made in the U.S. in 2009. That number times $200-$250 per job skimmed from our appraisal fees by these big time AMC industry players is very big money; “our money”.

    The amount of money that is going to THEM, and being taken from US; equates to about 1 billion annually for the work WE perform, that THEY will be compensated for. (Read Below)

    Lets STOP the HVCC, and make ourselves heard in Washington the 2nd-3rd week of April.
    ————————————————————————————————————————————————————-

    From General Appraiser Butterfield, (954-929-6094)

    Please read the attachments, and…”Follow the money”
    ——————————————————————————————————————————————-
    Hello Appraisal Board Members from General Appraiser Craig Butterfield.

    Subject: Exposing and defeating the HVCC (Home Valuation Code of Conduct)

    This is the complete and updated package of evidence that may very well put a halt to AMC’s and the HVCC. I am, once again, resending this to about 200+ state board members in all 50 states, and Puerto Rico. To date I have spoken’ with around 40 to 50 state board members on the phone, all of last week and this week. As you may be aware there are lawsuits in progress: NAMB versus the HVCC, and there are suits against Countrywide and Rels for fee skimming and/or blacklisting.

    I can and am most willing to be the liason to help Appraisal and Real Estate Board members intercommunicate with eachother in other states who are taking AMC’s and the HVCC as a serious threat to our livelihood. Please contact me anytime. I will get interested, assertive and concerned board members together state to state.

    The AARO meeting (Association of Appraiser Regulatory Officials) was last WEEKEND in New Orleans. Hopefully some positive action was made to combat the HVCCs problem. If you have not seen the HVCC as a problem. I trust you will see the HVCC for what it is; a sham, by some very wealthy people, to control one more aspect of business in America. Take some serious time digesting all this information below please. Get with the appraisal and Real Estate board attorneys and your state attorney generals, as they will be able to help. The information presented herein will inform and prepare you in a final effort at defeating the HVCCt.
    ——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–
    We can and we MUST stop AMC’s: Our fees and turnaround times have been cut in 1/2 or even worse in the past ten years. Additionally the HVCC will take away any opportunity to maintain ones own client base – No clients = No business. If the key big three AMC’s in the U.S. say that: “We are not adding any more appraisers to our approved panel”, then plain and simple; your career as a residential appraiser is over.

    State Boards: Again I urge you to NOT register and regulate AMC’s and therefore legitimize their activities. OUTLAW them. It is imperative to mandate that anyone involved in the appraisal process must be a Certified Appraiser, licenced in the state they perform appraisal services, and be the majority owner of the company. Tens of thousands of jobs are at stake in the appraisal and mortgage industries; possibly as many as 2 million jobs. Appraisal reveiw is already being out-sourced overseas.
    ————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–
    Please read all of these attachments. It will take you less than 90 minutes. It has taken me a year, here and there to research and gather all of this documentation.

    The synopsis of; “what’s really going on” is seen in the FARES/FIDELITY antitrust attachment.
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    Understand that three AMC’s (FARES/FIDELITY and FISERVE) all run by billionaire Title Insurance Titans are taking over our profession, and already control upwards of 90% of all appraisal and title work in the US (See FARES/FIDELITY attachment).

    All the evidence is in the links on the attached PDF’s. I do have more evidence in file; but what I am sending is in itself, while perhaps overwhelming to some; quite well documented, and more than enough to make a sound legal argument.
    ———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
    FIDELITY COMPANIES: William Foley Chairman and CEO of Lenders Services Inc (LSI)/Service link (Fidelity companies) compensation last year was $179,000,000.00. That’s 179 MILLION dollars. Mr. Foley is #4 on Forbes list of the most highly Compensated Executives in the US. His company after the Land America merger expects to do 50% of all title/appraisal managment in the US. (See Title Firms Merger attachment – Last Paragraph) Several Fidelity Companies are TAVMA members and the chairman of TAVMA this year is an SVP with Fidelity; Bill Sussman.
    ———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
    These people I allege have engineered, conspired and colluded the takeover of the appraisal industry from the get go with their *TAVMA (Est:1987) allies *(Title Appraisal Vendor Management Association). Please visit the TAVMA site. These are the companies that have ramrodded appraisers for 24 hour turn times, for fees under $200.00. There is no way to verify sales data, or write a clean, well thought out appraisal report under such demand to “produce” at the blink of an eye.
    ——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–
    FARES: Parker Kennedy, Chairman/CEO of FARES (First American), and a TAVMA member has joint ventured (JV) AMC’s with 5 of the 6 largest banks in the US.:

    FARES is the nations Largest Title Insuror and AMC through JV’s

    1) Citibank + /FARES JV AMC = (Finiti)
    2) JP Morgan Chase + FARES = (Quantrix).
    3) Wells Fargo is in a JV with FARES: Rels is their AMC
    4) Wachovia has now been absorbed by Wells Fargo
    5) Wamu and FARES = e Apprazit. (WAMU has now been absorbed by JP Morgan Chase)

    You will see that George Argyros is a director at Freddie Mac and sits on FARES’s board of Directors as well. Conflict; I dare say, in light of this HVCC agreement.
    2007 FARES Compensation: $141,995… 2006 FARES Compensation: $176,301, ’08-’09 (est @$300,000) – 4 year total = $618,296 (Coffee money for George)
    Net Worth: 1.8 Billion – #271 – Forbes (See 3 Argyros attachments). It’s all quid pro quo with these people, I help you monopolize the appraisal industry, Then it’s Hey HUD man, I need $100,000,000 to fund my new low rent housing project. “Affordable housing”, they call it. The owners of many of these “projects” are worth billions.
    ————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
    These are the major top 5 national banks in the US. The only other major national bank left is Bank of America, and they now own Countrywide/Landsafe.
    Landsafe is a TAVMA member and Donald Blanchard was it’s Chairman last year (see attached).
    ————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–
    FI-SERVE: Gerald J Levy – (See attached) is a board director in Fi-Serve (AMC-TAVMA) and also heads: The League of Savings Institutions:
    2007 Compensation from Fi-Serve: $157,223 2006 Compensation from Fi-Serve: $149,919/ ’08-’09 (est @$300,000) – 4 year total = $607,142

    FI-SERVE: Daniel Kearny- (See attached) served as the President of Ginnie Mae (Ginnie Mae is the lending conduit for HUD). Kearney is on the board of Fi-Serve. . 2007 compensation from Fi-Serve: $175,223. 2006 compensation from Fi-Serve: $163,419. ’08-’09 Unknown (est @$325,000) – 4 year Total = $663,642
    Director MGIC, 2007 compensation: $313,856
    ——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
    First, it was determined by the Appraisal Foundation that an appraiser could only supervise three trainees; and appraisal shops were splintered from real business enterprises to mom and pop shops; to ultimatly make us into individual practioneers working for the AMC’s. The HVCC is the final nail in the coffin to wrap up their control of the appraisal industry.They engineered it from day one; 1987. (A 20 to 25 year plan to consolidate control of the appraisal industry). Ever wonder why YOU are now always asked to personally inspect the property, when FIRREA and USPAP do not require you to, and your trainee could. Wonder no more!
    —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–
    10+ people involved in TAVMA are billionaires who I allege are in cahoots with Freddie/Fannie top execs; Daniel Mudd (20.77 million – #202 Forbes- see att) and Richard Syron; ($20 Million for ’07), #374 on Forbes 500 list of highest paid executives whom were two of the four signatories to the HVCC document. The other two signatories are Andrew Coumo, and James Lockhart of HUD; Coumo was the former director of HUD. Atty Gen Coumo launched an investigation of wrongdoings by AMC e-Apprazit (A FARES co.), then within 1 year mandated that only AMC’s can order appraisals and mortgage brokers could not through this HVCC aggreement. The fox was hired to guard the henhouse. As one appraiser stated, it is like hiring a pedophile to run the daycare.
    ——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
    Coumo; NY atty Gen; was/is legal council for an AMC named AMCO; Edward J. Davidson is Chairman – CEO of AMCO, now known as:Valuation Services LLC. Davidson is a consultant to Fannie Mae and MGIC. (Click on AMCO – on the Davidson attachment and it will link you to Valuation Services LLC). Davidsons company was financed into existance with a 2 million dollar funding by Access Capital – A NY based lender – Please google them up. Also please see Apgar attachment. Apgar joins Coumo at AMCO (Apgar was a former HUD Commisioner). Three former directors of FHA are on AMCO’s legal advisory council: Coumo, Jack Kemp, and William Apgar.
    ———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–
    We need some Attorney Generals to investigate, and possibly indict NY Attorney General Andrew Coumo (and friends) for counts of: 1) bribery (We are offering you $$$ to create this HVCC agreement; and you, Coumo, have taken compensation for same), 2) conspiracy, 3) collusion, 4) tortious interference, 5) restraint of trade, 6) unfair trade practices, 7) price fixing (apraisers fees), 8) consumer fraud (fee Skimming), 9) extortion (The withholding of appraisal fees or make our numbers appraiser; change these comps or be blacklisted), 10) RICO and other counts as the legal practioneers determine… We are contacting them too; state by state.
    ———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
    Wake up and smell this coffee; it STINKS. Take a breather; READ the attachments. Click on the links; it is all there in Black and White, and sometimes in living color. There is no more mystery what-so-ever as to what is going on in our appraisal industry; it’s all on the table.
    ——————————————————————————————————————————————————
    There are STILL states rights, though the Federal gov’t and the boyz are doing their darndest to get rid of them. Job creation? Don’t for one minute buy into that hogwash.

    Having said that we can outlaw AMC’s state by state on a state appraiser board level.

    ———————————————————————————
    Here’s how we stop AMC’s – Not just the HVCC, but AMC’s period.

    The persons who are running our state licensing boards are themselves appraisers.

    Once you understand what is actually going on in our industry; you will quickly and easily conclude that your careers are threatened as well.

    We are done, if we do not remove AMC’s from the picture.

    You can enact rulings on a state level without congressional or senate approval; at the departmental level of our licensing boards.

    Additionally; one of the 8 functions of Real Estate that one can perform by virtue of having a Real Estate licence is found in the Acroynym: ABARSALE.

    Based upon that acronym, that I remember to this day, when I first got licensed back in 1986; the privilege of RE licensure is broken out as follows: When brokering services for a third party, when one expects to receive compensation, (based upon Real Estate Law, at least in Florida, and perhaps in your state), one cannot, without holding a Real Estate license.

    Advertise, Buy, Appraise, Rent, Sell, Auction, Lease, or Exchange (Eight Services of Real Estate Florida) from a google search. (ABARSALE) I have registered a formal complaint with the Florida DBPR, and they are looking closely at it. Time will tell

    RESPA; truth in lending laws and RE Brokerage laws are presently being violated as, a closing statement may state that an appraisal fee is $400.00 or $500.00, yet the appraiser may be compensated 1/3 to 1/2 of that; and that is FRAUD. If the AMC takes the remainder, they are most certainly receiving compensation, and performing one of said 8 services of Real Estate (in Florida).

    Appraiser Boards, please communicate with YOUR Real Estate Boards, and see if existing laws prohibit an AMC from doing business in your state.

    ——————————————————————————————————————————————————–
    If we desire Appraiser Independence; we should be able to maintain our own client base as any professional, and we can police our licensed appraisers by revoking licenses of the bad apples through our state appraisal boards. No appraiser should ever be blacklisted. I do however, have published blacklists in file in excess of 25,000 appraisers from these major banks. Appraisers who do not make the numbers, or refuse to drop their fees are the first ones blacklisted. There will be no Appraiser Indepencence if AMC’s are allowed to rule our industry.

    There will ultimatly be no appraisers at all as the AMC’s goals are to do automated valuation models (AVM’s). Yet, they will still charge the home owner/borrower, for an appraisal fee. If this HVCC comes to fruition, another round of economic disaster will be seen in the US, before its ultimate demise. Appraisers/Appraisals are a very important link to ensure checks and balances in the financial markets. FARES/FIDELY and FI-Serve are simply just another AIG…., and YES, there are ties to AIG as well (See unanswered questions attachment; page 1) AIG is the primary underwriter for appraisers E and O insurance, and said insurance rates have increased 30 to 40% over the past two years,

    ——————————————————————————

    Appraisers/Appraisals are a neccesary tool to protect homeowners from fraud. Appraisers did not cause the present financial devistation in America; the Fed engineered it; but that is another story, or perhaps simply another chapter to this story (see press release attachment).

    ———————————————————————————————————————————————————–

    The ruling to eradicate AMC’s on a state level that I have composed is seen in on page 4; last paragraph of the FARES/FIDELITY/Fi-Serve attachment – The RULING I suggest essentially parrots; RE Law; wherein a lay person cannot collect a commision for selling a home; any more than a layperson can practice law or dentistry without adequate schooling, apprenticeship or passing a qualilifications exam. These attachments should be all that will be needed to provide the needed wake up call to arms.

    ——————

    (Please also see FIRREA notated (attached), pages 5-6, which states that – A bank MUST take an appraisers appraisal, when coming via an agency relationship)

    (There is no such thing as “an Approved Appraiser list”. If an appraiser can evidence competancy to perform the assignment, they MUST take the appraisal)

    (The Appraisal Institute (AI) is complicit in reversing this free trade FIRREA/12 CFR part 34 legislation on both state and federal levels; and is pushing legislation everywhere to favor their membership; but for the time being, in light of the bigger fish to fry; it is best to have the AI as an ally – but they are next on the list; believe me)

    FIRREA/12 CFR 34 is/are the appraisers “Constitution”, The Appraisal Institute, & The Appraisal Foundation are dismantling it, as the Feds are dismantling the real one.

    ——————————————

    Thanks….and just say NO!

    NO more to Corporate American greed destroying our country, and the livelihood of hard working Americans!

    We make less, if we work at all, and OUR ever increasing tax dollars go to support THEIR bonus’s.

    Craig H. Butterfield – Founder – Appraisalunion.org Please see Appraisal Foundation (Est: 1987) – Industry Advisory Council PDF (attached)State Certified General Appraiser # RZ-1063 (FL) (If you have read this far – It will come as no surprise to you at all)
    http://www.butterfieldappraisals.com Please forward this E mail to the appraisal community, media and Anti-Trust, & Criminal Law firms
    Ph. – 954.929.6094

    PS; and if all this so far hasn’t tweaked your ear, and set you to boil; then lastly; see the Press Release attachment that I wrote last year which will give you the needed insight to see WHY the Real Estate Settlements and Procedure Act (RESPA) law is being changed regarding “Bundling the Closing Statement”. (aka Burying the Appraisal fee). That can be found on page 3 of the Press Release (att) under Shawn McGowan links. (CEO of AMC Velocity/formerly w/ e Apprazit, and Chairman of the Industry Advisory Council of the Appraisal Foundation). I’ve also included links here:. http://www.allbusiness.com/government/government-bodies-offices-legislative/5611415-1.html ……and here: (Ready to Bundle Article by McGowan): http://www.allbusiness.com/finance/3596467-1.html.

    McGowan writes about how confused (“Mystified; he states”) a consumer is at being able to differentiate an appraisal fee, from a title closing fee, from a credit check; fee; on a closing statement, So McGowan wrote an article to wrap these fees all into one bundle; and former HUD Secretary Alphonzo Jackson spearheaded the change in the RESPA statement to “Bundle those costs”.

    An excerpt from my earlier press release (attached) states “McGowansÂ’ ideology — “Mr. Grocer, how much were those apples? – McGowan states, it doesnÂ’t matter, itÂ’s included in the price of the milk, and cheese, and at only 100 dollars – why ask?

    McGowan, last years Chairman of the Industry Advisory Council to The Appraisal Foundation; this years Trustee to the AF, and CEO of: AMC Velocity, and a member of the TAVMA cartel are: Title insurors/AMC’s, and they sell appraisal/title and credit checks!

    They clearly do not represent the interests of: “Joe or Joni, the appraiser”, nor do they represent consumer interests, but they do indeed represent their interests: $Money$, $$Money$$, and more $$$Money$$$, is where their interests begin and end.

    For a brief moment, I pondered writing Mel Martinez, my Florida Senator; but, he too, is a former Director of HUD. Incestuous relationships are to be found at every level.

    ….. Fannie/Freddie/Ginnie Execs; Citicorp, Bear Stearns, Shearson Lehman Execs, and even former Air Force Generals, and a veritable-virtual who’s who in America sit on the boards of AMC’s: FARES/FIDELITY,FI-SERVE,Velocity and AMCO. There may be 5 million or more home loans made in the U.S. this year. That number times $200-$250 per job skimmed from our appraisal fees by these big industry players is very big money; “our money”. The amount of money that is going to “THEM”, and being taken from “US; equates to about 1 billion annually for the work “WE” perform, that “THEY” will be comensated for.

    Lets STOP the HVCC, and plan our march on Congressional Hill -Now!

    Attachments: Text version of this message. (22KB)
    Fares-Fidelity-Antitrust-Rev.pdf (141KB)
    George Argyros.pdf (129KB)
    Title firms’ merger creates titan – Pittsburgh Tribune-Review.pdf (342KB)
    Daniel P. Kearney Profile – Forbes.com.pdf (354KB)
    Gerald J. Levy Profile – Forbes.com.pdf (237KB)
    Apgar Joins Cuomo on AMCO’s Advisory Board.pdf (48KB)
    Person Profile_ Edward Davidson.pdf (125KB)
    Appraisal Foundation-2009- IndustryAdvisoryCouncil.pdf (122KB)
    TAVMA — Volunteer Leadership Opportunities Web Site — Blanchard.pdf (146KB)
    FIRREA-FinalRenditionNotated-Revised.pdf (87KB)
    Andrew Cuomo – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.pdf (680KB)
    15_mortfraudAMCO.pdf (904KB)
    Unanswered Questions about Andrew Cuomo.pdf (302KB)
    #4 William P Foley II – Forbes.com.pdf (279KB)
    PressReleaseRevised.pdf (158KB)
    Valocity’s Shawn McGowan Elected to Appraisal Foundation Board of Trustees. .pdf (220KB)
    ReadyToBundle.pdf (152KB)
    #271 George Argyros – Forbes.com.pdf (192KB)
    George L. Argyros Profile – Forbes.com.pdf (255KB)
    #202 Daniel H Mudd – Forbes.com.pdf (291KB)
    Freddie Mac CEO got $19.8 million in ’07 – Mortgage Mess- msnbc.com.pdf (332KB)

  10. Jim Gibson says:

    In the last few months I have joined or been invited to be included on the list of a few AMC’s.
    The following are some examples of what I have experienced. My first assignment for this particular AMC was scheduled at 9:00 a.m. at 9:15 a.m. I received a phone call asking whether or not I had done the inspection. The turn times on ALL of the assignment I have been given or very unrealistic (for me anyway) and I get points reduced from my overall score, I guess if you drop below a certain score they wont use you any more. I feel threatened on every order that I take from verbiage listed in the request, “Failure to meet the deadline could result in less assignment in the future”, “Your compliance is required in order to insure future work”.

    I have been offered assignment for as low as $170.00 which I have refused. On the assignment that I do except I am making on average $150.00 less than I typically would have made.

    I have had to deal with some AMC’s version of Quality Control, here is a great example, I did a 1,600 sqft 2 story with an 800 sqft basement which I had checked as being a full basement, this gal calls me and why I marked the basement as full when it is only half the size of the stated GLA?

    I have been self employed for 10 years and I made decent money, I try to do about 15 appraisals a month out of my own company, now I am an employee with no benefits doing more assignment in order to make the same amount of income. I am not sure if appraising can still be called a Profession.

    As appraisers, we can make a difference if we refuse the fee’s offered and we refuse to be bullied into rushing our work, I know appeasers can do work very quickly, but I need time and apparently that is something I am running out of.

  11. Justin Marks says:

    Did anyone read the article in Working RE where Paul Chandler stated, One hundred one man shops is not a profession. Did this guy hit his head? Dentist, accountants, lawyers, chiropractors, the list is endless of one man operated professions. And somehow I missed all the work the AMC’s do to demand up to half of the fee.

    There has never been more intimidation to appraisers then by the AMC’s

    Protect Yourself

    1)Record all your phone calls, ask for email correspondence only.
    (If they don’t like this, WHY would that be)

    2)You will be blacklisted (If you do not take a very low fee)

    3)They will revolve their appraiser list just to starve you now and then to control you.

    4)Payment should never be more then 30 days from the time you complete appraisal.

    ALL appraisers should save now and take off the month of July.

  12. J. Fred Baughan says:

    Thank you Don Betz and all others as I pause from typing another frustrating appraisal report to write some thoughts. The cycles of real estate and the economy that is so effected by it are typically long term. So many experts work so hard to make our profession so over complicated so many times and the same things happen over and over again as it is now. After a boom there is the cloom and the master minds come up with the solutions to fix it but it still doesn’t work in the long run. I believe in old sayings because they usually are true. The simple solution is typically the best solution; however, simple is never going to be unless we make it happen together. Don Betz has a great idea, Strike. Make the public aware of how they get ripped off. Main stream tv should do the trick but who can afford national network time.

  13. Don Betz says:

    Certified General…. Did my first fee appraisal in 1964, in the business for over 45 years.. been thru all kinds of recession, one every decade. The 60′s local thrifts failing, 70′s prime rate over 20%, 80′s residential mortgage rate around 15% & RTC closing banks, 90′s Banks/S&L crisis & mergers, but NEVER this BAD (in the 1st Quarter of 2009 I did 11 reports, not even 4 a month, 1st Q of 2008 I did 65, 83% down) and now I’m regulated AND REQUIRED to submit to AVMs.

    In the early 90′s I associated with a regional appraisal firm, we did 59-60 orders a day(staff of 45 appraisers) for equity loans for a regional bank , no pressures or demands from the bank, they really wanted to know what the property was worth, real Appraisals. (You older guys might remember). Until the license law (every real estate wantabe got licensed) and a AMCs surfaced, hired the new licensee and undercut our fees with the bank…..

    In mid 90′s, I joined them… as chief appraiser, I set up a program for a new AMC, had over 1000 appraisers on the hook. After 18 months, I quit in a dispute over my boss’ AMC’s failure and refusal to pay the appraisers’ invoices. Typical AMC, working on the appraiser’s money.
    (I remembered when… one infamous Pittsburg AMC owed ME over $10,000 for appraisals in 1988)

    In the 2000′s along came the greedy mortgage brokers, on every corner, with commission loan originators who screwed the homeowner by bumping up the quoted interest rate and getting kick backs from the money lenders. They are now done… in jail, or back to selling vacuum cleaners and or brushes????

    THERE IS NO NEED AND NO ROOM IN THE MORTGAGE INDUSTRY WHERE COMMISSIONED LOAN ORIGINATORS WHO MAKE DEMANDS

    THERE IS NO NEED AND NO ROOM IN THE APPRAISAL INDUSTRY WHERE AMCs MAKE DEMANDS AND RULE US.

    Let’s talk about the Appaiser’s fee… HVCC states that the appraiser cannot collect COD or from the Mortgagor AND the AMC and/or the lender will pay the appraiser “timely” WHATEVER THAT MEANS.

    Let’s talk about the Appaiser’s fee… I now receive a fee of $375 to do a URAR appraisal, with interior pictures, market condition form (1004MC), extra comps and active listings, and…dealing with unknowing processors and underwriters… I spend hours every day educating these people on the FANNIE MAE guidelines or FHA requirements. Ten years ago the fee was $300 to $325 an appraisal.. My cost… insurance, gas, rent, telephone, etc, have since more then doubled. And NOW, the AMC want’s a big piece of my $375 fee… NUTS, What a career…

    The only solution is for the Appraisers is to… UNITE.. LET US ALL GO ON VACATION FOR 60 DAYS…. THAT WOULD PUT THE BANKS, BROKERS AND LENDERS DOWN ON THEIR KNEES, let them rely on AVMs or BPO’s and trainees …to make their $500,000 loans.

    Soon they will come crawling back to US.

    So… WHY NOT….we are not making a living wage NOW, so what have we got to loose.

    I’ll greet you at the local Wal Mart, my new job, where I make more money than doing an appraisal for $200 or $250 while running the tires off of my car, paying $2.15+ a gallon for gas and, on my way to the job, answering the cell phone call from an Indian (the country) clerk asking if I’m done since the appraisal is due tomorrow and how much is the Value.

  14. Chuck MIller says:

    Certified Appraiser rant, What I find most distressing about all this is everyone expects me to do more for less. I still get promises of more work if I can make this appraisal work, I’m still asked to do comp work, but now the brokers want us to call them to see if the value is there so we don’t waste anybody’s time… what about mine? From what I see the implementation of hvcc although delayed means absolutely squat. AMC’S are even worse than the brokers, they are the worst at pressure, fees and reviews etc. I get a fee based on hourly rate which was derived from pure business sense, what it cost me to do business, growth and replacement equals my hourly rate otherwise why be in business. AMC’s ask me my rate and tack on thier fee or expect me to hand over part of my fee or even better yet charge me to submit the report, where did that come from? I find thier expectations of turn around time unrealistic, thier review process idiotic and thier management horrendous, redundent and just plain annoying. When you get 6 people from one company askinig you the same questions on a daily basis somethng is wrong and then they threaten to cut your fee if you don’t exceed their demands. I thought all this legislation and hoo ha was supposed to simplify and lessen the pressure, I guess I had it backwards. I am at the point where internal struggles keep me from calling state and federal banking authority on half of these clowns. Then there is the review process… this doesn’t meet our clients expectations well excuse me since when did my report become based on expected outcome, sounds illegal doesn’t it since I’m required to certify that my work is not based on any expectation of value. I have had some really idiotic reviews returned from clearing houses located in far away states using data that doesn’t suscribe to uspap or my states regulations & standards. the worst part is nobody believes me but are all to willing to believe the scewball 8 states over who has little or no idea that my state is really part of the union or it has a 6 million acre state park smack dab in the middle of it but I must be wrong right… Someting is wrong with this profession, it should be a good one but of all the players involved we get the least amount of money and the brunt of the responsibility, does the broker get sued if the homeowner defaults, does the bank or the attorney or the title company, real estate agent ? nope just us because we gave it a value that the buyer couldn’t support because it needed to be 20% more than its worth to float the note again its our fault, must be right. I don’t know about any other appraiser that reads this but how many times have you recieved an order with words to the effect of max value, need x, minimum value. call with value first or last but not least homeowners estimate of value is.. and then have the broker get all mad and snotty when it doesn’t happen, but the home owner said it was worth… in my opinion all that needs to stop if we are held to the premis that it is what it is then all the inuendo over value needs to dissapear pressure to perform in a way that makes a loan work needs to go to. OK I’m done, just dreaming its still business as usual we need 4 hr turn around time for the expected value…. wink wink..

  15. Jo Ann Hocking says:

    I have been in the real estate profession since 1978 – as a sales agent, mortgage rep and since 1997 as a state licensed appraiser in Michigan and now in Tennessee. I have trained my share of beginners, fought for my money from lenders, worked under severe pressure, paid fees on top of fees for licenses, con-ed, e&o insurance, etc…I have worked for reputable banks, bottom feeders, AMC’s, attornies, individuals, etc… I have appraised homes, vacant land, waterfront, farms, etc…now I am so stessed over this upcoming October, 2009 FHA dropping me from the roster unless I am certified – that it makes me sick!! How unfair!! I and many other like me have more ‘hands on’ experience then many of the ones making these rules. All of this true experience and knowledge means nothing it seems. Everyone looking for more money from us for additional needless college credits, etc…yet trying to cut our fees while heaping on more ‘pain in the butt’ forms and more liability. I have trained some in the past that are now ‘certified’ and believe me thats not making them more competent – you would be much further ahead with me – a lowly state level appraiser. I was contacted to do a field review by an AMC but was told I had to be certified. Then they called me back and said they were going to assign it to me anyway since there were so few certified appraisrs in my area and the fact that looking at my resume I have more experience, relevant education and references than then anyone on their staff did! That should be the point – experience, not making us jump through all these hoops. Being certified does not automatically make one a better appraiser. Alot of damn good appraisers will be lost due to this certified thing. I absolutely LOVE what I do and I hope I can continue doing it for many years to come – but it seems that the states and the rules and everything else is working against us. Thanks for listening.

  16. Dave Sherman says:

    How can I get a full copy of the HVCC so that I may make a comment on AMCs. I have stayed away from these people but have tried two and have left both with a bitter taste. Appreciate any info on the whole HVCC REPORT. Thank you, Dave

  17. Ed Goodrum says:

    HVCC will only insert another fee taker from the client, one that will pay the appraiser less than the fee collected. My question has always been, “How does the HVCC assure integrity?” The HVCC does not assure the public of honesty, nor does it protect the public. There are other appraiser fields, in lieu of Fannie or Freddie. Think about it! No license required for legal fields, trusts, etc. And there are no AMC’s involved. I think the more involved the HVCC becomes, the more appraisers will “retire” from the field of battle. egoodrum@comcast.net

  18. Kris Heiser says:

    It makes my stomach turn thinking about the HVCC and the negative impact it will have on my business. I contacted a Director of the Appraisal Institute Regulatory Board and his comment was for me to call the AFL-CIO. I am not a union guy in general, but apparently we need one to fight back!

    I talked to my appraiser friends here in Florida, and each one of them said YES!

    Anyone else have the thought of a union?

  19. LA-Certified says:

    First I would like to thank most of the appraisers who have responded here, the truth needs to be told. Except for The California Appraiser who has obviously been unable to establish any good MB/LO relations, that’s OK there is a special place for you. After 25 years I have gone through a lot of changes, been in and out of the professional organizations, worked for large institutions and have had 3 different honorable fee shops in my journey. I some how managed to gain approval with 45 major lenders and institutions, and have never been blacklisted (that I know of), and at least never been sued. I have a solid reputation, I’m honest, hard working, and insist on providing my clients with only quality, comprehensive detailed reports. I don’t think I have ever completed an assignment in less than 3 days (after inspection) and I usually take 5-7 days, nor have I ever been pressured to do so. I’ve established my own fees and built a clientele of honest MBs, Banks, Attorneys, and Accountants, and have never been without work.

    I have never worked for an AMC, and will obviously/most likely not be able to. The HVCC will cost me 60-70% of my existing business and it is doubtful I will be able to survive financially. The cost of maintaining my now 1 man practice will be prohibitive, unless by some miracle I find a situation that will cover the cost of my E&0, Health Insurance, Data Sources, Office and Auto expense, etc.. Well I guess we could move back in with my parents??? (I jest, I’m 52). The integrity lost to many seasoned appraisers will be devastating, but was it really necessary. For now I anticipate having to start over in a new profession, wish me luck.

  20. matt schwartz says:

    Let me add my sour opinion of the implications of HVCC third parties to the stack of emails you all must be getting. Regarding AMC’s, this is a cure that is far worse than the disease. I don’t know about your AMC, but many if not most are all outsourced to the philippines and india. These phone monkey grunts are the ones screaming at appraisers to take rear photos on drive by assignments and they will open up your appraisals and make changes and nag you around the clock to submit your appraisal WITHIN FOUR HOURS OF INSPECTION. Non-Appraisers from other countries yet, REVIEWING appraisals, this is just illegal. Ever heard of broadcast appraisal orders? Ugghhhh, Another AMC nightmare coming by the gross.

    I got paid…………80 bucks to do a review of a property in West LA with NEW COMPS, where massive prior appraisal fraud was involved. That was the most difficult assignment I have ever done and I got….80 bucks from e******* to do it. That took me several days to do. AMC’s will pay you WITHOUT REGARD to the complexity of an assignment. They are in it for the money. They will pay absolutely as little as possible, FORCE you to pay enrollment fees, and then pay you 9 months out. What do they care. Ughhh. What a hideous occupation this has become.

  21. Robert Dixon says:

    After reading the article in the Winter 2009, Working RE, I was angered and very disappointed in your publication. The scenarios presented by the author are distorted and do not tell the true workings of AMC’s as they relate to the everyday appraiser. The typical AMC does not assign the work based on who is most capable of doing the appraisal but it is based mostly on who will do it for the lowest fee and the quickest turnaround time. The adminstrative work required (phone calls, emails, updates and misinterpreted/disregarded correspondence) far exceed current non-AMC assignments. “Experience would tell us” that an extra step along the way creates more confusion, misunderstanding and longer resolution to problems. I have spoken to many appraisers and am still looking for that “hassle free” AMC. This is the reality of the work assignments. It would seem to me that the HVCC was not enacted to produce this type of appraisal environment. In fact, it would seem that this would have a similar, if not worse affect on collateral valuation and the future of lending.

    Mr Chandler appears to be situated in the right spot for his own personal gain as an AMC founder/CEO with the advent of these new regulations. However, being an appraisal publication, I disagree with your decision to grant Mr. Chandler a soap box to spread his rhetoric and half truths about the AMC industry. I fear the day when most appraisal assignments are dominated by large appraisal management companies and the monopoly they will have to cut appraisers fees to whatever they want and the minor role good appraisers will have in determining their own destiny. Sounds like big business licking their chops to me and less like a sound decision to resolve a problem in the industry.

    Respectfully

    Robert Dixon-Partner
    Appraisal Associates of New England

  22. Chris says:

    To California Appraiser,

    You are quite a conceded individual aren’t you? To blanket me and the other thousands of appraisers who accept appraisal assigments from mortgage brokers as “corrupt”, “ethically challenged” “crooks” is just as outlandish as saying that all appraisers who accept assigments from AMC’s are inexperienced, incompetent, desperate yes men who simply don’t know how to properly market themselves and their business in order to get “full fee” clients. The fact is, there are some corrupt, etically challenged, crooks out there that are willing to get any value asked, we all know that, we have all seen them, however, my years of experience has been that the cream rises to the top even in the eyes of mortgage brokers and loan officers once the appraisals of these crooks start being challenged at every turn and they start to realize that these crooks are providing nothing more than a $350 dollar paperweight. I have had many a loan officer come crawling back saying that I was right, there is no sense in stretching a value, now more than ever, because many times the report will get stipped and not end up closing anyway. Does that mean that I am going to be proud and say told you so and not accept any more assigments from them based on principle? As much as would like to, I can’t afford that. So for you or anyone else to sit back on your high horse and call em a crook, well, needless to say, that makes my blood boil and it is simply wrong. You are ignorant, arrogant and a complete joke.

  23. I have been Appraising for well over twenty five years now and have seen a lot of changes over the years. This one though is really a big change. What I do not understand is why as an Appraisers we sitting around taking it. I think there are some good parts of the new HVCC, However there are some really not well thought out parts to, however why is it that we as Appraisers are excepted to take the financial hit on this. Way don’t the AMC’s get there fees from the lenders and let us charge or normal fees and do the quality of work we have always done. There is something wrong with the way this is going down. My cost are not going down, In fact this last year my MLS, Insurance, Supplies and out side labor has gone up 25 to 30%. So why are we selling our self’s short. I agree with some of the statements already made relating to fees. If we say NO. My fee is this and your fee is over that amount.

    It’s always the same, the lending industry has in the past done everything to reduce or keep our fees low in relationship to the time involved and the costs to produce an Appraisal Report. This has to stop and it’s only going to stop when we as Appraisers say NO. I have no problem working with an AMC as long as my base fee is paid for the product they are requesting. Think about it. There is nothing saying we have to cut our fees. Its only the AMC that thinks we should and there being pressured by the lending industry. Enough, It’s time to say NO, This is my fee and yours is above that fee. Yes, this will increase fees to the borrowers in the long run, Or will it? Only time will tell. But one thing can tell you is. If an Appraiser can not make money Appraising then they will get out of the business. I truly believe I do a good job for my clients and turn out a quality product and I am not going to give it away, Why are you, does the average Appraiser think little of there time and expertise. If so it’s time you do get out, because I think my time is worth my fee and I think your fees are worth your product also. Charge your full fee and let the AMC charge above that fee our collect it from the lenders.

  24. California Appraiser says:

    In ten years every mortgage broker or loan officer client I ever tried to work with always expected me to provide or accept an “estimated value” before I even got the assignment and eventually all would haggle me for value or ask me to remove unflattering statements on the condition of a house. I stopped dealing with them entirely more than three years ago as the whole corrupt nature of the broker/appraiser relationship became undeniably obvious.

    Those who accept orders from mortgage brokers and commission earning loan officers are clearly ethically challenged and corrupt. The HVCC is a godsend and will at least make significant steps towards ensuring unbiased evaluations. To all of you crooks complaining about the HVCC – your “full fee” has included payola for making the deal slide through and for being in the commission earning sales person’s back pocket. It has not been because the mortgage broker thinks you are such a competent and honest appraiser. Get a freaking clue. Having to pay the “honesty tax” by accepting orders from AMC’s while some crook does the comp check for the broker, agrees to a value before going out to the home and makes 30% or 40% more than I do makes my blood boil but it looks like maybe this economy destroying scam between appraisers and mortgage brokers might just be ending finally.

  25. Sharon says:

    A 30% pay cut is significant and especially when our liability goes up as of April 1st with the addition of the 1004MC. Third party companies, with no regulating, will have the same ability to pressure an appraiser as the LO does. Recently had an appraiser tell me she did work for a management firm and got a response back that the LO and homeowner thought the appraisal was too low…would she please re-evaluate the appraisal. She did and told them the same thing…she stood by her value. It can almost be guaranteed that she will NEVER receive work from this company again…I would say that was pressure…wouldn’t you? They have no regulation to use the next appraiser up in line…they just choose the ones that can hit the numbers and get the work done as fast as possible. It takes me so much longer to do an appraisal now than it did 10 years ago. I had one firm call me to do an enhanced field review…what, you ask, is an enhanced field review? They wanted a review from back in 2005 and I was to supply three additional comps, scan in all the MLS sheets for the original appraisal and the new comps I chose. They wanted photos of ALL comps. They also wanted a CMA scanned in listing ALL available comps. I asked what they planned to pay…$200…FORGET IT…I told him I would do the work and get it to them within their time frame (about 5 days) for $600. I guess I will be one of those that gets out of the business… We take on the very MOST liability of anyone in the entire sales process from the RE agent to the loan officer and we get paid less than 10% of the fees they receive…crazy…wouldn’t you say? I think this whole thing will blow up in Cuomo’s face. This does nothing but add an additional hand in the pie taking my hard earned money. They still have the same ability to pressure me! If everyone would say NO, we won’t take that low fee then maybe we could all stand together and fight this thing.

  26. Mike says:

    I have been appraising over 23 years and feel this entire industry is a joke. I consider myself an honest, ethical appraiser. It’s not my job to qualify borrowers. It’s not my job to qualify properties. “it is what it is” and that’s what I report. Most of my work is for local banks. I get no pressure for value, for turn time or fee. These banks have not failed and will not fail and have few foreclosures. First, they know I “tell it like it is”, they respect that and believe the report I produce. If the value is not there, so be it. AMC’s on the other hand don’t believe a word I say. There is always additional requirements, for instance, additional time and effort to support checking the declining box but no time or effort rerquired when checking the stable box. Why is that?. Beat you down so you’ll give up and commit fraud, check the stable box and accept the cheap fee and keep getting assignments. They don’t want appraisers, they want yes men. What do all the failed banks/lender/mortage companies have in common? They all used AMC’s with automated underwriting. The government is a joke, Cuomo is/has been an advisor for AMCO, HVCC is a joke, banking commision is a joke and state appraisal boards are a joke and the appraisal industry is a joke. Get rid of HVCC, get rid of commision based origination and get rid of appraisers who are unable or unwilling to produce an honest report.

  27. When I began appraising almost 20 years ago, most of my assignments came from AMCs. I soon found that like everything else there were the good, the bad, and the ugly. Sometimes I think we over react to the ongoing changes imposed upon us, and they are many. In many classes I heard the fears, which I shared, that our profession was finished. I think we will adapt and we will prosper if we remain calm. Work for the good AMC companies and not for the bad. Above all, do not make rash decisions about leaving a great profession.

  28. Jack says:

    I will refuse to accept an AMC appraisal request that does not meet the time and effort required to complete a professional report. If a significant number of appraisers would do the same, perhaps there would be realization that we will not work for “peanuts”. This probably a fantasy because there are those who will accept an appraisal request for any fee. I am a one man shop and also do appraisals for individuals and relocation work. I can survive without the mortgage work but my income will be less. All my marketing efforts – business contacts over 25 years in the business will be worthless come May 1st. Future mortgage work will not be dictated by ones efforts but some AMC who will be looking for the cheapest appraiser with the quickest turn time. A question I have is how will those who have staff appraisers and have a split fee arrangement going to survive in this coming environment?

  29. Kevin Hollingsworth says:

    I have been an appraiser for 30 years but years ago, became disgusted the mortgage appraising…there was always a whore willing to provide the number needed when I wouldn’t. I finally moved entirely away from mortgage appraisals and towards RELOS & private appraisals where I can “call it as I see it”. There is not a prayer I would accept the low AMC fees, a sentiment I imagine most GOOD appraisers have.
    My wife is a sales manager at a C21 office. What we are seeing is a rising trend of incompetent AMC appraisers who grab the first 3 comps they find, and don’t care if the appraised value interferes with a successful transaction. I think this will spawn a new source of income for appraisers…reviewing and appealing defective appraisals for loan officers and Realtors. I already registered the domain “AppraisalAppeal.com”.

  30. Jerry Beach says:

    I just finished taking the survey and read the comments on this blog. I’ve been appraising for about 14 years now. I don’t have problems with MB’s and LO’s when it comes to pressure to hit predetermined values or “make the deal work”. They get told upfront that what they will get is fair market value as honestly as I can prove it. If they are looking for something else – then go somewhere else.
    I have to agree with James Begg. NOBODY but NOBODY can force you to take lesser fees. And if they require more work (1004MC) or extra addendas etc. then the fee changes and goes up.
    If you – the appraiser – start accepting these lower fees and pressured turn times – then it’s your own fault. It would only take about a month or two of these AMC’s being told NO to their fees and other conditions to bring them to their knees.
    We – the appraiser work force – have the power to keep our profession from being demeaned to the point that no one wants to practice. I just wonder how many will have guts enough to stand up to them.

  31. Tim says:

    This is from a State Cert. appraiser. The HVCC serves no true purpose for professional appraisers. Let’s not forget the AMC’s(EappraiseIT, LandSafe) which were involved in the first place as to why this legislation was initiated. AMC’s serve only one purpose and that is to profit off of appraiser’s. They charge the same or more to the end user(borrowers), take a large cut for themselves and have little to no liability in the entire process. Let’s also consider the changing business model for appraisers who have taken years to develop their clientele and pride themselves in the appraisals they submit. Lender pressure will always remain whether a single appraiser or an AMC is providing the report. AMC’s won’t want to lose clients and they will do everything they can to pressure appraisers in “hitting the number” or to “overlook” certain characteristics of a property which would hinder it’s ability to fund a loan and if they won’t “play ball” some other AMC will. What are the requirements to set-up an AMC business and why was this not part of the HVCC process?? There, in fact, might be appraiser’s who have lost their license due to violations which start up an AMC. In addition, why don’t AMC’s have a “no charge” policy for getting listed and then take a set percentage or flat fee from each appraisal? If I listed myself on all these so called AMC’s I would be literally broke before even getting 1 appraisal as they don’t guarantee work just a listing!!!

  32. Craig Villa says:

    The HCVV isn’t worth the paper it’s written on if there are no real consequences to anyone crossing the line. Don’t we already have mortgage fraud laws on the books?? How many executives and politicians have gone to jail for perpetuating mortgage fraud? I don’t think any. The whole HVCC is nothing more than a way for Corporate America to legally steal our fees. And don’t bother looking to your State Appraisal Board or The “Appraisal Foundation” to do anything for us either. I actually believe the Appraisal Foundation may be helping this thing along. Do any of you know what AI read format is? Ask yourself why would the Appraisal Foundation want appraisal reports to be transmitted in a specific format? Could it be that they are GLEANING your reports for info and packaging and reselling “YOUR” report to others? I wonder.

  33. Tony says:

    State Certified Appraiser. To all appraisers I got into this business for many reasons. First flexability, a good profession, you can earn a good living and work more to earn more or less to take a breather. I also will not bend or fold to any AMC or other entity forcing me to loose my income because they want to earn trust from a managment company. I am a grown man and do not need to be managed. I just like many others can be honest and do an honest job. The appraisers did not cause the decline or collapse of the real estate market. It was a boom everyone road the train and the builders raised prices until they could not be afforded by many locals or investors. Basic economics! Now if there are many appraisers happy that professionals leave the business so they get more work, they are the ones that should be out of the business. I am honest and work 50 to 70 hours per week to enjoy my God given right to live as well as those who take our money for not doing any work. So I will not take a major cut in pay to work for any AMC I tried it and got $80 per appraisal and had to turn them in two days no later or take a reduction in fee or get no more work. So if an AMC will pay me $350.00 per appraisal or more and not rush me cause that is pressure stress and caused mistakes then I will do it, if not then hire some idiot who sells them selves for pennies. Remember if no one does the appraisal for pennies then we control the out come. It takes years to become an appraiser and that means they have no choice but to pay for your professional service. Eveyone else in real estate gets paid fairly and super fairly, attorney’s agent’s brokers, the banks with closing fees. Our job is the most important so don’t pay me do it your self. Certified Appraiser (PAY ME OR DO YOUR AVM).

  34. James Begg says:

    This is from an Appraiser with over 20 years of experience. Management Firms might be great for Freddie & Fannie with their lawsuit with Atty General Cuomo, but not with the the Professional Appraiser. Freddie & Frannie still got their books looked into and if you look into the books of management firms in the future, you will find that the Management Firms stole from the Appraisers in the field. If management firms agree to pay you, plan on spending several extra hours per assignment trying to collect. Add those hours to your assignment with stupid questions from “temporary employees/underwriters” and you will be making less than beginner worker at McDonald’s. Yes – There are several honest appraisal management firms out there, but you are better spending your time finding quality clients that trust and appreciate your professionalism in the product you produce for them.

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